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lone_elm_z6

Magnolia for clay and wind, zone6

lone_elm_z6
5 år siden
sidst ændret:5 år siden

Looking for Magnolias, large varieties. The wind can really whip across the open fields here and we have not great draining clay. Not sure what choices there are that will work for north shore Lake Erie. My wife has her heart set on a Magnolia to replace an Elm that bit the dust.

(24) kommentarer

  • dbarron
    5 år siden

    Hmm, since (as a rule) magnolias have big leaves...umm. Does this wind blow like this in summer (if not, deciduous magnolias could work ok), stellata comes to mind (but it's more of a shrub than a tree).

    I'm not sure the native magnolias trees (like cucumber tree) would like a poorly draining site. You *may* need to realign wife's expectations or ask her to move south.

  • lone_elm_z6
    Forfatter
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    My main residence is in London Ontario, a 2 hour drive Northeast of the site I'm talking about, and there we have a lot of Magnolias around the neighborhood, the difference being a more sandy soil and sheltered suburban setting.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    5 år siden

    I don't know about the wind, but the clay shouldn't be a problem. Is there any wind protection at all? If so, saucer magnolias may be as good as you are going to get. Stellata has issues with blooming too early, and the flowers getting zapped.

  • dbarron
    5 år siden

    That's very true mad_gallica, but in my area soulangeana types are even worse.

  • lone_elm_z6
    Forfatter
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    I would describe it as a tree in an open field, pretty much. I have a new sugar maple to the southwest of the spot, and another new one to the west, the house is 70 feet north west, an outbuilding just right to the east. But when I am out there working and the wind is blowing across the farm fields, it can be exhaustingly relentless. You want to get shelter after a while. The other trees, lots of varieties, are not suffering it seems.

  • dbarron
    5 år siden

    I tried a big leaf magnolia (worst choice ever), and it was simply shredded and I don't have much wind (ie not often, but can be severe in storms). Without shelter, no go.

  • User
    5 år siden

    The Big Leaf Magnolias that I have seen (NJ/Zone 7), always seem to be understory trees protected by taller trees from sun and WIND. What about Magnolia stellata (Star Magnolia)?

  • arbordave (SE MI)
    5 år siden

    Star magnolia is quite hardy, but may not be as large growing as the OP is seeking. For larger growing varieties with good hardiness, hybrids having M acuminata or M kobus in the parentage are probably the best bet.

    Yellow Lantern is one example of a hybrid that grows relatively large. Here's a local tree (photo 5/7/18):

  • Embothrium
    5 år siden

    Magnolias generally are best in sheltered positions. Maybe try a modern, disease resistant flowering crab-apple selection instead.

  • lone_elm_z6
    Forfatter
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    I don't know, I might try a Saucer Magnolia and see how it goes, planting highish in the clay. A Dolgo Crab was put aside the driveway a few years ago; I'd rather something different than another crabapple. My mind is stuck on the Magnolia and I've got it pictured at the spot.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    5 år siden

    my usual comment about my saucer mag.. was that the day it boomed in late may in my MI .. would be the first wind storm of the season ... 7 out of ten years ... and i wouldnt claim any special wind effects in my garden ... go figure ...


    and two of the other years out of ten ... we would get a late hard frost or freeze.. that would ruing the flowers ... double go figure ... lol ..


    but that one year ... oh my.. that one year.. made the other 9 years worth the wait .... of course.. with 5 acres... i have the space to allow such ... in much more limited space.. i probably find something better ...


    star mag is bulletproof for me ... mine is grown in shrub form .... ken

  • lone_elm_z6
    Forfatter
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    Are wind and harsh conditions mostly a problem for flowering, and not the tree proper? I am not sure what is meant by an unsheltered situation being not optimal for the tree.

  • dbarron
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    I thought it was clear, those big leaves are not suited for wind, they bend/fold/tear.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    5 år siden

    Not all magnolias necessarily have big leaves. M. stellata for example is quite small and even the saucers do not grow huge on all cultivars. My concern for an exposed location would be the potential damage to flowers or buds from late spring frosts.

  • dbarron
    5 år siden

    And that is why I recommended stellata, GG :) Yeah those stellata and saucers are bad at that (spring zapping).

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    5 år siden

    Close to the lake, spring temperatures are going to be somewhat moderated. Here, we will get the same effect from the Hudson River, though it doesn't extend as far. Stellatas apparently bloom early enough that it doesn't take much of a cold snap to damage their flowers. Saucers bloom enough later here that flower damage is less likely.

    It is probably going to end up being a very local things, which magnolias are less likely to be damaged.


  • dbarron
    5 år siden

    I know it doesn't seem to make much sense, but in my climate, saucers were more likely to be damaged than stellata (or so I thought). It may have to do with the fact that our weather likes to be contrary and give you a warm period followed by an abrupt cold period about the time saucers flowered. That may be much less of an issue farther north (I don't know).

  • Embothrium
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    Flowers of all of the early kinds are prone to frost, sun and wind damage. And the parts of any magnolia do not have to be large to be torn by gales. But maybe try one of the Kosar and De Vos hybrids or 'Galaxy', both developed by the USNA:

    https://usna.usda.gov/assets/images/as_pdf_image/Magnolias.pdf

    https://www.usna.usda.gov/assets/images/as_pdf_image/Magnolia_Galaxy.pdf

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    5 år siden

    I have found that my several Magnolia Leonard Messel do fairly well in exposed sites with late spring frosts. Leaves are relatively narrow and smaller than most magnolias. I live in a river valley which tends to channel wind and is a late spring cold sink. However, my site doesn’t compare with the exposure and constant wind of Midwest prairies. You might want to consider planting the magnolia in a spot that is more sheltered and plant a different type of tree in this exposed site. Depends on how much time and money you are willing to put at risk and how bad you feel about killing plants.

  • whaas_5a
    5 år siden

    Poor drainage is an enemy of Magnolia.


    Are you more concerned about wind or early season freezes? Is your area subject to the latter?


    I typically plant my Magnolias on the northeast side as the soil remains frozen longer which keeps the Magnolias from blooming prematurely. As a tree snob I do chuckle at Magnolias planted with southern exposure.


    These are the two I'm growing now. The wind is wicked, beyond wicked. The snow will strip down to the grass in these areas.


    http://www.songsparrow.com/catalog/plantdetails.cfm?ID=4291&type=WOODY,&pagetype=plantdetails&plant_name=Magnolia%20Jazzy%20Jane%3Csup%3Etm%3C/sup%3E%20(%27KLMWW%27)


    http://www.songsparrow.com/catalog/plantdetails.cfm?ID=2815&type=WOODY,&pagetype=plantdetails&plant_name=Magnolia%20stellata%20%27Chrysanthemiflora%27


    If you're concerned about the freezes go with NhBabs recommendation. That is one of the later blooming varieties and can reach a decent size. In addition the pink flowers don't look as dirty as the white flowers when you do get those early season freezes.





  • arbordave (SE MI)
    5 år siden
    Sidst ændret: {last_modified_time}5 år siden

    Agree with Embo that "Flowers of all of the early kinds are prone to frost". It's a fact of life in this region (upper Midwest, including SE MI and SW ON) that the early flowering varieties will incur frost damage some years depending on weather (9 out of 10 years according to Ken!). As mad_gallica said, a location right on the lakeshore would help moderate temps a bit. But I think the more important factor in terms of longevity for a magnolia in an exposed location in this area is cold hardiness. Some of the varieties mentioned above do have good hardiness. Star, Leonard Messel, Merrill, the 2 whaas linked, as well as the acuminata hybrids are quite hardy. Is OP looking for a more tree-like habit, or is a broader multi-stem habit acceptable?

    Here's a list of some of the hardier varieties from another Chicago area nursery.

    I've seen Butterflies frost crack in this area.


  • lone_elm_z6
    Forfatter
    5 år siden

    Thanks for all the help everyone.

  • PRO
    GreenTec Nursery
    5 år siden
    You could try Fraser Magnolia - Heavy clay isn't to its liking, but it actually does hold up to the wind!

    In the Southern Appalachians, Fraser Magnolia grows mostly in rich, sheltered cove forests. It surprisingly also grows in "Beech Gaps," clefts in ridges that are prone to rushing winds and predominantly covered by American Beech.

    Granted, the north side of Lake Erie is pretty far removed from the mountains, but it may be worth a try. We grow Fraser Magnolia and it does well in our loamy acidic soils of Indiana, but unfortunately we don't ship to Canada. Check for some nurseries online, and you may be able to locate one!
  • Embothrium
    5 år siden

    >predominantly covered by American Beech<

    = a wooded setting where surrounding trees cut the wind as opposed to the open fields of the planting site being discussed.

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