Designer Fees Up Front?
So, I am experiencing a first. We have done a ton of work with different contractors, vendors and designers over the years. In all circumstances, we paid a deposit and then paid the remainder of the bill based on a schedule(first design, first stage, percentage of project complete etc.).
The company that I would like to work to re-design our bathrooms with, is highly recommended, but they want full up front payment to give us a design. Is this ok? I’m fairly confident that we will get what they are promising because they are well regarded in our community. It just kind of rubs me the wrong way. Thoughts?
(38) kommentarer
Mrs. S
3 år sidenI would not do business like that with anyone. Have you shopped around for another design firm? I am curious how much of a payment are you looking at?
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenMrs. S, it’s only $2000 for the total design of both of our upstairs bathrooms. It’s not the cost as much as, giving them money up front. They have a good reputation, it just feels weird, and I don’t really want to pay it up front. Even if it was a 50% retainer and 50% on completion of design would feel a lot better to me.
kayozzy
3 år sidenI would never pay in full upfront. That is a great way to lose all your money and usually there is no recourse. Plenty of companies have had great reputations and reviews and then start robbing people blind. I'd view it as a bad sign that they even asked.
PROJudyG Designs
3 år sidenSidst ændret: {last_modified_time}3 år sidenI think Mrs. S and I read your post as if many thousands of dollars were in jeopardy.
$2,000. to design two bathrooms? Pay it. You have found a bargain.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenKayozzy, that’s how I’m feeling. It just feels wrong and it’s not the way that business is done in our area.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenThanks JudyG, I appreciate your professional opinion. I was wondering if I was being over the top paranoid.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenOk, Judy G, now I’m nervous about why they’re cheap? 🤣
What would the typical planning cost be for bathroom design? For my kitchens it came in between 5-7% twice.User
3 år sidenSidst ændret: {last_modified_time}3 år siden*Design retainers* are always up front. 2K is way cheap. If they are qualified. If additional time and additional fees are required, they that gets handled as the work is approaching 3/4 through the retainer.
Helen
3 år sideni paid for the design of my remodel. It is quite a bit of work to produce a design.
My upfront fees were twofold. One was for the very specific design that was submitted for permits as well as to the GC for bidding. The fee was based on square footage. This amount was not recoupable and wasn’t a retainer. It was a fee for services rendered.
There was an additional design fee that was for the aesthetic aspect of the project. The amount I paid for this was recoupable again fees paid to the designer if I proceeded with the project. It was very complete and I owned it and could have used it without using the firm for the project
There was some slight savings by having both done at the same time as my designer explained that some of the work on both aspects at the same time.
No good designer is going to provide actual services for free. There might be an initial consult that is free to see if you are compatible. The designs that are provided by cabinet sellers are paid for through the sale of the cabinets and aren’t free nor do they provide the same kind of services as an individual designer working for you would be providing.
What are you receiving for the initial payment. As the project moved along I paid considerably more than the initial retainer since I also paid a markup for goods and services since we purchased some items and others were custom designed by her and then produced by craftsmen under her direction.
Fir me it was money that was totally well spent.momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenHelen this is just for a basic, medium and high end plan for the master and a pull and replace plan for the kids bath. They can project manage after that and source products, but we are not using those services. I have my own GC and my own suppliers for cabs, tile, plumbing supplies and counters.
This is all making me feel better. I am used to paying my kitchen designer by the hour, so a package price just struck me as odd. But, because of the master bathroom redesign, I need someone with vision for what the space can be and this designer seems to have some great ideas.
PROKristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
3 år sidenI have a 16-hour minimum for my projects and my retainer amount is the amount of those 16 hours. So if your project only takes 16 hours, then you are paying in full up front. If your project takes 32 hours, you are paying half with my retainer. Every designer operates differently and I suggest you research to find the one that is the best fit for how you want to work.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenKristin, thank you! I’m just used to a more detailed bill from contractors and design professionals. I would like to see:
The total is for 16 hours of design, each addition hour is billed at $x. It’s literally a piece of paper with two bathrooms, two dollar amounts and a signature line. It’s just not the kind of contract I usually sign with a contractor, architect or designer. But, I like their work and their reviews in our area are great. So I am leaning toward paying the fee and crossing my fingers.🤞- PRO
Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
3 år sidenI have a four-page contract, even for a 16-hour job. I do not think it's a good sign that this designer does not have a professional contract. Where are you seeing their reviews?
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenOn houzz and Angie’s list, plus I know people that have worked with them personally. They are a four person operation with a store front in our suburban town. But, because I’ve done so many other projects, the lack of a contract sends up a red flag. I will reach out to her in the morning and see if we can get something more formal in writing.
PROJoseph Corlett, LLC
3 år sidenPeople email me for sink replacements regularly. With no money down, I have sinks delivered and installed by my employee and I collect at completion from people I've never even met. So yeah, this all upfront payment business sounds a little fishy to me. Let's hope they don't want cash.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenThanks Joseph. That’s been my usual experience with vendors. I am reaching out to her this morning to see if we can get a more specific contract and payment schedule.
L thomas
3 år sidenIs the company only completing the design phase of the remodel? Or are they a kitchen/bath place that has a few cabinet lines, their own contractors, and an in-house designer?
eld6161
3 år sidenTo a designer, it’s the way they work!
We have done many renovations and have never used one.
We have walked into showrooms and they visit our home and then create a presentation along with the cost.
There was one showroom had visited, set up an appointment and instead of the presentation they left our ugly bath photos on the screen! They wanted money upfront for the plan, but quoted our size bath at least $46,000! Uh,no.
Don't think so.
beesneeds
3 år sidenIn the reviews, is it noted that this companies normal practice is to pay in full up front? Check a few references and ask.
The piece of paper with minimal information sounds kind of lacking as well- again, is this their normal procedure? Check references and find out.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenArch, they do both, but we are only using them for design as I have my own GC and vendors.
Bees, there’s no mention of the upfront payment in the reviews. But many people may not know that it’s atypical. Because we’ve done a few major renovations, it strikes us as odd.
L thomas
3 år sidenIf they're a full in-house turnkey operation, for most of their jobs the initial design fee is likely akin to a retainer for the entire project, start to finish, in which case it is just a down payment on the entire project. Since you're only using them for one scope of your project, it makes sense that they require full payment up front for the design. And I agree with others that $2k for design is a bargain. I'm actually surprised they're not sur-charging you for not using the rest of their services.
Helen
3 år sidenNot sure what is being discussed.
A remodeling contract doesn't have payment up front. It is generally done as a step deal with amounts paid as certain goals are met. Typically there is a down payment - a payment due of x% when the step starts and then amount due when the step is completed. There is also generally 10% held back until the total job is finished and approved including the punch list.
If one is hiring someone to install a sink or other limited job, payment is generally due on completion. That is how a plumber or electrician charges for those kinds of jobs as well.
In terms of the original post - which I thought was for design plans - my experience is that you pay upfront for those and you own them. The difference (at least in my experience) is whether they are a fee which is what I paid for the extensive plans used to submit for permits and for bids. These have specifications and measurements and are really the equivalent of blue prints. There are also retainer type arrangements which are recouped against fees charged by the designer when the project moves forward.momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenHelen, exactly. I am used to a schedule, but I am not using their other services. Their reviews are strong on design, they don’t get good reviews as project managers. My GC is incredible, and I have relationships with vendors because of our previous projects. So I really need detailed plans, which I believe they can provide. My question was more whether or not to pay up front without a detailed contract of services, it just made me uneasy.
lindacottonwood
3 år sidenIf you are only using their design and nothing else why would they give those to you without payment in full? People have been known to take a design model worked up for them and tell the company " Oh well I wanted something different." Fully intending not to pay but use that design. They have put hours into the design and need to be paid whether you like the design or not. This is where communication comes in before they start.
We had a friend that was a Landscape designer. People wanted his designs but wanted to do the work themselves or hire cheaper labor. If he didn't get the payment upfront he was out all his time. Just my 2 cents. Maybe I am not understanding the problem.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenLinda, my issue is that it’s not typical in our area. For example, We just got a survey of our property done. The survey cost $1500. We got a detailed contract, with an estimate and and hourly rate from the survey company. We were asked for a $400 retainer. And paid the remainder upon delivery of the final survey. That’s what I was expecting, I am just unsettled by paying entirely upfront and the lack of a detailed proposal.
Helen
3 år sidenI am confused. It is not unreasonable for your designer to request $2000 up front for their design fee. That would be pretty standard in my experience. There are too many ways a client can refuse to pay for the services. I paid for the design services up front before the designer started. I can think of a number of reasons why designers hav this business model.
It's a bit different than a plumber or an electrician doing something in your house. They come - they do the job and they are paid. In my experience, they require payment before they leave the house. I think they can also file a mechanic's lien although I am not 100% certain of this. For the most part it is an objective determination that the job is done - the toilet is installed; the sink is installed; the HVAC works. If there was some problem, a reliable vendor then comes back and fixes it - which is why one hires reliable tradespeople who do a great job initially 99% of the time but fix the issue in the rare circumstances when there is a problem.
What kind of reassurance are you seeking? Their fee seems reasonable. You are confident that they can produce a design that would be better than one you would do on your own. It is unlikely that they are going to take your money and not provide a design. You would be wise to have some kind of contract specifying exactly what will be delivered - and you would be wise to find out exactly what is going to be delivered so that there is no confusion regarding what you are hiring and paying for. The only variable is whether you subjectively like the end result - this isn't a reason to withhold payment.momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenI have never and would never withhold payment for services rendered. We have done two full kitchen renovations, a full basement reno, and extensive outdoor projects. Not once has anyone asked for full payment up front and not provided a detailed description of the scope of services provided. I am not comfortable with this model. I will talk to the owner, if she won’t agree, I will just find another designer.
In this case I feel like it’s asking the client to take all the risk, and that seems unfair.
Thank you all for your feedback, I appreciate the discussion.Lyndee Lee
3 år sidenA fee of $2,000 for your complete bathroom design seems quite low for an established designer with positive reviews. Knowing that they have had multiple satisfied customers, I would try out their services and pay the design fee in advance. Would you be happier with a $4,000 design fee and you only had to pay $2,000 up front?
Have you considered the possibility that their fee is so low because they don't have a 16 page contract? They obviously can't afford to charge only $2K for their work if they have to cover expensive overhead like professional fees for lawyers and accountants. This designer might really enjoy the freedom of doing design work unencumbered by the expectations raised by a multi section contract with clauses chiseled in stone.
PROSabrina Alfin Interiors
3 år sidenIs this designer JUST providing the layout/construction docs, or is she also specifying and doing the purchasing? If the latter, I think $2K is also quite low.
A lot of designers--myself included--have a minimum retainer to begin work. I usually insist upon 25% of total estimated fees, or my minimum retainer, whichever is higher.
PRORe:modern Design + Architecture
3 år sidenMultiple thoughts:
- Trust your gut on your instinct not to pay the entire amount upfront. Ask for a payment schedule tiled to their services.
- $2K seems low for the design of 2 bathrooms. Is it clearly spelled out what you are getting as deliverables? Could it be that it's just the starting retainer?
- Even if they give you just plans, who will handle the coordination, specs, and making sure the builder is implementing according to the design intent as things inevitably evolve over the course of construction?
- Every vendor does operate differently. If you want to consult with an expert who will help you specifically with being an empowered homeowner and advise on your specific situation, check out kickstarthouse.com
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenEveryone keeps saying that $2000 is so low, if the total cost for doing both bathrooms is $50,000, what would you imagine the design fee would be? Is it going to be comparable to the design fee of $7000-$10000 of my $140,000 kitchen? I figured it would somehow be tied to the scope of the overall project.
I am not using any of her vendors, this is just for design.
momofthree03
Forfatter3 år sidenRe Modern,
1. Trust your gut on your instinct not to pay the entire amount upfront. Ask for a payment schedule tiled to their services.Thank you!!
2. $2K seems low for the design of 2 bathrooms. Is it clearly spelled out what you are getting as deliverables? Could it be that it's just the starting retainer?No, there are no details, just says a plan for each bathroom.
3. Even if they give you just plans, who will handle the coordination, specs, and making sure the builder is implementing according to the design intent as things inevitably evolve over the course of construction?If there were big questions, I could retain them on an hourly basis. I have done three huge projects with my GC and we can handle most issues that crop up.
Helen
3 år sidenI went back to my original contract and I was mistaken as there was a split payment for delivery of the "Plans". I do want to say that nothing in a contract would replace the excellent relationship I had with my designer - and I am a lawyer. If you have to resort to the contract, you are already in trouble. :-( My designer had done work for my building and other condos in my area so I knew that she was not going to flake out in the middle of the project as she had already been vetted by other professionals.
I pulled out the language of my contract and took out the exact amounts paid - it may or may not be helpful or relevant to your project since I did a major remodel and used her as my complete decorator as well as project manager.
Just illustrating that a personal relationship was more important than what was specified in the contract since she went above and beyond what she theoretically was contracted to do. the Part I plans were also used to submit for bids so that everything was on an apples to apples basis for the bids - I was never charged an hourly rate for her "designing" stuff I didn't purchase. She even arranged my tchotchkes and helped arrange my closets for no extra money :-) Her mother was a retired designer and they came over on multiple Saturdays pre-Covid to help me move back in with help of my housekeeper. I paid her mother a nominal amount :-) and provided lunches for us all but she was essentially providing her design services out of affection for me - although obviously she had been compensated very well for her services. Her husband who is an IT whiz still comes by when there has been some blip in all of my automated services - no charge.
Interior Plans, Construction Drawings, Plan Check, and Title 24 (Part I)Designer agrees to complete a set of plans and do the Interior schematic drawings for a flat fee of $X.00 per square foot based on 1148 sq. ft. Designer, will prepare a set of Plan Check-ready plans and submit the plans to the City’s Building Department to secure a successful plan check and receive RTI (‘Ready To Issue’) document. DTI will distribute the same drawings to the structural, electrical, and mechanical engineers to complete and stamp the Title 24 portion, then provide Designer with an approved Title 24 plan check. Note: Client understands that this fee does not include: any Title 24 fees, permit fees, construction costs, labor, materials, installations or deliveries, and that they are additional costs. Also, all title 24 fees are due on demand.
Interior Design (Part II)Designer agrees to do the interior selections, finish specifications, the furniture space-planning and project management on this project at a percentage over costs on new purchases and construction. However, there will be an hourly fee on the space planning and enhancement of existing furniture used on your project on and as need basis. Initially, we will perform a walkthrough with you to establish what furniture items will remain in the unit. An initial retainer will be required for this project. These services would include: color-consultation, design specifications, space-planning, furniture, furnishings, accessories and material selection. This fee does not include: construction costs, permit fees, labor, materials, installations, or deliveries.
Professional Fees and Payments
Designer will perform the above-described services in two separate fee structures set up in an “à la carte” manner and are as follows:- Part I: Interior Plans, Construction Drawings, Plan Check, and Title 24 will be billed at a flat fee of X thousand, four hundred forty-four dollars ($———) with a deposit of X thousand dollars ($X,000.00); the second and final payment of x thousand, four hundred forty-four dollars ($X,444) will be made after delivery of the design plans and prior to ‘Plan Check’ submittal. This includes one client revision. Additional revisions will be billed at our hourly drafting rate, as listed below.
Requested Service: ______________________________ Date___________
- Part II: Designer’s services of creating a Design Concept and Project Management for your interiors will be at a percentage over cost. The fee on new purchases will be billed at twenty percent (20%) over all FF&E dealer/designer costs, fifteen percent (15%) over all appliance and fixture costs, and fifteen percent (15%) over all specialty construction (i.e. finished carpentry and custom-designed tile) and ten percent (10%) over all standard construction (i.e.) electrical, framing, drywall, etc.). Also, will be an hourly fee on the space planning and enhancement of existing furniture used on your project on an ‘as needed’ basis. The retainer is two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) and we will credit the retainer towards Part II’s interior design and project management service fees, which will be prorated back to you during the process of your project. These fees will be billed upon purchasing.
Requested Service: ______________________________ Date___________
Payment of both the Part I deposit and the Part II retainer are to be paid upon the signing of this contract. Upon receipt of your check we will start the project. All checks are to be made payable to: Designer Should at any time or for any reason the project be cancelled, Desiger reserves the right to be compensated on an hourly basis for our professional time and drawings. Lead Designer ($X.00 p/h), Sr. Designer ($X.00 p/h), and Drafting ($X.00 p/h). Please note: Reimbursable expenses will be billed in addition to the above-mentioned fee structure.
PROEl Nido Interiors, LLC
sidste årAs a professional designer for 20+ years - design fees are almost always paid up front and I have never had any issues with this. There has been some circumstances where it's 60/40 but not often. I always have a, detailed scope of work, budgets are set and a detailed contract with estimated timelines. Hiring an interior designer, a professional, is mostly about the relationship between myself and my client, we become a team and then comes the science of interior design and how to achieve my clients goals with a beautiful aesthetic... Do your homework and find an experienced designer worth their salt and go for it!!! Great things will happen =)
PRORE.DZINE
sidste årI charge 100% up front gor all designs and drawings and deposit for other services . i have had a situation where client took my designs, never paid snd had contractor built everything per my drawings. this is sbdolutrly how sll designers do their business .
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